As arguably the greatest coach in basketball history, Phil Jackson won 11 championships with Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Shaquille O’Neal and Kobe Bryant.

If anybody would know the differences between those all-time greats, it’s him. In a panel at the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference, Jackson shed some light on their work ethics.

“Shaq didn’t work at it,” Jackson said. “Michael was able to succeed despite all kinds of limitations in hi